Ch 4: The First Meeting

Isabella having left, UmarLahmi and Muaz went to their houses and
began to study the Holy Qur'aan and the Bible and noted down important
points to be discussed. Next morning on Sunday the news of this
discussion was known all over the city. The Christians had made
arrangements that only a few Muslims should be allowed to enter the
church. So many Muslims had to return disappointed. Umar Lahmi, Muaz
and some Muslim divines came to the church and entered it on getting
permission. They found eminent priests of Cordova present there busy
in their worship. After some time, however, the discussion began.
Isabella and all her companions were present.
Michael (Isabella's teacher): We have learnt that you have some doubts
about Christianity and have come here to resolve them and that you
have promised that on getting convincing reply you will forsake Islam
and adopt Christianity.
Umar Lahmi: We have notthe least doubt about Christian beliefs and
teachings but are fully convinced that doubts are baseless. But if you
satisfy us and convincingly explain yourbeliefs we are all certainly
ready to become Christians.
Then Michael reckoned toan elderly man to take upthe discussion. He
came forward and sat near Umar Lahmi. His name was Peter and he was
known as an expert in Arabic learning and Islamic literature and hadto
his credit many books against Islam. He was supposed to be the most
efficient debater against Muslims. He addressed Umar.
Peter (in a superior, rather commanding, tone): I am told that your
great objection is why Saint Paul has called religious law a curse.
But this is a minor and side issue. You are Muslims and believe in the
Qur'aan and, therefore, the decision about Lord Jesus Christ and
Christianity should be according to the Qur'aan.
Umar Lahmi: I had clearly defined the subject of discussion in my
letter as you yourself admit, but now you want to discuss other
matters. When I have written that the discussion should be on the
religious law and curse, what objection canyou have?
Peter: We will answer your question also but first let us deal with
the basic issue and that too from your Qur'aan. Does not your Qur'an
say about our Lord Jesus to be Ruhullah (the spirit of God),
Kalimatullah (the word of God)? Has it not been mentioned in it thathe
used to bring the dead to life ? Then if you believe in the Qur'an,
how can you doubt Lord Jesus being the son of God ?
Umar Lahmi: You have started quite a different discussion which is not
even remotely concernedwith our object. What I want is to understand
the significance of religious law and the curse. If you are prepared
to discuss it, then do it, otherwise let us take leave.
Peter: I put up the Qur'an before you and want thatthe basic issue
should be decided first. If you want to avoid the basic question and
enter into side issues, it means that you have no answer to it.
Umar Lahmi: Well, you want to discuss the basic issue apart from your
religion and taking the cover of the Qur'an. If you want to discuss
the basic issue, let us first decide whether Adam did commit a sin and
if it is decided that he did, then we should discuss whether it passed
on from generation to generation to the entire humanity, that is on
account of Adam's sin all human beings became naturally sinners. If
this has happened, we will discuss how the blot of sin can be removed.
Thenwe may discuss the chastity of Prophet Jesus (according to the
Bible). Thereafter you shall haveto prove that Jesus was God and he
only can absolve humanity of sin. When all this is proved, you shall
have to prove that Jesus was crucified and for all the sins he
remained in Hell for three days. This is to be discussed and not what
the Qur'an says about him.
Peter: All this is irrelevant. What I want is to prove from the Qur'an
that Jesus was the "Spirit of God" and the "Word ofGod" and he brought
the dead to life. Therefore Christian religion is just.
Umar Lahmi (pointing to Isabella): Now I appoint her the judge and ask
her why we were called here. (To Isabella Sister,you have to say now
what I wrote in my letter and why you brought us here.
Isabella: In fact the real talk was as to whether religious law is a
curse ornot. If it is a curse, why do the Christians by following it
become accursed? But the objection of our holy father (Peter) is also
justified and my judgment is that first your objection should be met
and then the Holy Father may put questionson the Qur'an.
Umar Lahmi: This is for me to leave the ground open for you. Now, I
giveyou the promise that when you have dealt with our objection we
will immediately allow you to put general questions. But when, as I
have promised, I embrace Christianity, what need then there will be of
any further questions?
Peter: Well, sir, then you state your question clearly.
Umar Lahmi: You go on replying each of my questions one by one and the
matter will be clear. First, let me know whether not to steal, not to
kill, not to oppress the neighbour, etc., are religious
commandmentsand whether they are concerned with religious law.
Peter: Surely, all these arerelated to the religious law.
Umar Lahmi: And what is Saint Paul's decree about religious law ?
Peter: What decree? I do not follow.
Umar Lahmi: You do understand it well, but you want to evade answer.
Just say if Saint Paul has called religious law a curse.
Peter: Saint Paul has called religious law a curse in this respect
that the core of religious law came in the form of JesusChrist and it
is a folly to leave the core and run after the skin.
Umar Lahmi: This is what I also mean that Saint Paul, taking Jesus as
the soul and religious law as the body, has called religious law a
curse, andsince, as you said, this Commandment of Old Testament is
related to religious law, there-fore to refrain from killing and
fornication is also a curse.
Peter: The thing is that you cannot understand these mysteries without
the help of the "Holy Ghost" and it is not necessary that a matter
which you cannot understand is in fact wrong. Saint Paul has called
physical religious law a curse and not all kinds of religious law.
Umar Lahmi: Agreed. Granted that Saint Paul has called physical
religious law a curse. Now just tell me if not to steal, not to
fornicate, not to oppress parents, etc., are physical religious law or
simply internal, spiritual and moral.
Peter: You are hitting on the same topic. Just listen. What Jesus
Christ has said is more preferable to what Saint Paul has said and our
Lord has asked us to follow the Commandments of the Old Testament.[See
Bible, Matthew, S : 19 to 10: 25.]
Umar Lahmi: That is, to obtain salvation it is necessary to follow the
Old Testament. If this is so, why did you raise the problem of
Atonement bycrucifying the "Son of God"? Why this bogle of Atonement
when it is necessary to follow the Old Testament? Is it necessary to
follow the Commandments of the Old Testament even after the Atonement
of Christ ?
Peter: We know nothing except that our Lord has directed us to follow
the Old Testament. But salvation cannot be gained by merely following
the Old Testament without Atonement.
Umar Lahmi: So Prophet Moses (Musa), David (Dawud), Solomon
(Sulaiman), Joseph (Yusuf), Noah (Nooh) and other prophets must have
been deprived of salvation, for their meansof salvation was just
following of the religiouslaw. So also must their communities have
been deprived.
Peter: Before the advent of Christ the only means of salvation was
following the religious law, but the Lord's Atonement changed it and
now the only means is Atonement.
Umar Lahmi: First you rejected what Saint Paul had said that religious
law was not a curse and then you rejected religious law as the basis
of salvation. Can you quote any saint to prove that Saint Paul's
saying that religious law is a curse is not true?
A person: Gentlemen, in fact it is apostasy and disbelief to talk of
these matters. All these elate to unseen mysteries. Saint Paul has
certainly called religious law a curse and it is really so, but you
people are unable to understand these mysteries. Our means of
salvation is the divinity ofChrist and Atonement, because Jesus was
free from sins and an embodiment of God, whoby his grace and
benevolence suffered on the cross in lieu of us andgave us salvation.
Another person: Do not indulge in mutual quarrels. You have begunto
refute Saint Paul.
Umar Lahmi: This is the result of untrue and baseless talks. Now, this
other gentleman has broached the subject of Divinity and Atonement.
First let the discussion of religious law and curse be concluded.
Peter: You have been given a conclusive reply. Now you may take eight
days to ponder on the matter. If your doubts arenot resolved during
this time, you may come here again.
Umar Lahmi: You do not regard religious law a curse and your colleague
says it is a curse and SaintPaul was correct. Which of you two is on
the right?
Peter: Those who say this are not acquainted with the mysteries of
Christian religion. You should not attend to what they say.
Umar Lahmi (to Isabella): Now, you say which of them is on the right
and whether Saint Paul was wrong in calling religiouslaw a curse.
Isabella: I came here to listen to your discussion and cannot
intervene in any matter. But I will request my teacher Michael to
resolve this question by his great learning and intelligence,since,
apart from our honoured guests, I myselfhave not yet understood it.
These words of Isabella fell like a bolt from the blue on the entire
assembly and everyone began to look at once at one another. Just then
Michael got up.
Michael: Brethren, we have assembled here to search faith and it is
certainly a very auspicious task. But for it,it is necessary that
there should be a sincere heart and an urge to accept thetruth. The
question of faith is such that no one can succeed by his own effort
without Divine help . We should, therefore, earnestly pray to God that
He should manifest the truth to us through the help of the "Holy
Ghost" and reveal to us the mysteries of the Christian faith. (Loud
cries of Amen from all Christians.) Gentlemen, whether religious law
is a curse or not is an irrelevant question. The real thing is that
our Mohammedan brethren have no knowledge of Christian creed and
principles and so they areindulging in polemics. The essence of our
religion can be stated just in two words, i.e. theDivinity of Christ
and Atonement. One who has understood these two has understood all the
secrets of the Christian faith. How gracious is God that He sent His
only son for our salvation to suffer all the troubles of this world
and then at last he was killed on the cross as an atonement forour
sins. So I will request my friend Umar Lahmi and his associates to
giveup the useless discussion of religious law and curse and think of
the holy personality of our Lord Jesus and his matchless atonement
andembrace Christian faith.
Umar Lahmi: We have notcome here for mere talk. We follow a principle
andwant to discuss basic problems. We have already defined the subject
of our talk in my note, whose witness is our sister Isabella here.
Now, if you want us to give up the real subject matter and discuss the
Divinity of Christ and Atonement, I am ready for that also, provided
you give me in writing that we give up the subject of religious law
and should talk on the Divinity of Christ and Atonement.
Peter: We do not mean tosay that you should not discuss these
problems, but that we may leave aside marginal issues anddiscuss basic
problems.
Umar Lahmi: Then why did you call us here? Churches and mosques are
not necessary for discussion. If you do not want to discuss, then say
so clearly so that our timeis not wasted.
Michael: You have misunderstood holy Peter's talk. He did not mean
that we should close the dialogue altogether. He only wanted to stress
that youshould put questions by thinking over the basic problem. But
it is already noon and you may have to take lunch. Say when it will be
convenient for you to come again.
Umar Lahmi: This time is very convenient. No one can say whether we
shall have this auspicious occasion again.
Michael: But you have also to offer your prayer.
Umar Lahmi: We can offerour prayer in this very church.
Peter: I think we better take up the discussion again next Sunday.
Umar Lahmi: I think the discussion should not be put off for so long.
Possibly we may be guided by Allah.
Michael: All right, we restart the discussion tomorrow at this time
and continue till midday.
Isabella: If the discussion to be put off for tomorrow, then it should
not end at noon but continue till the evening so that we may come to
some conclusion.
Michael: Not at all, have we no other business?
Isabella: I think, no other business can be more important than this.
It was, however, decided that the discussion should begin in the
morning and continue tillnoon.
This concluded the first meeting. Umar Lahmi, thanking all Christians,
leaves for his home whilethe priests and Isabella remain sitting in
the church.
One priest: It is regrettable that you gavethe opportunity to these
"unbelievers" to raise objections and let the Christian faith be
ridiculed. The only way to treat these heathens isto put the Qur'an
before them. Holy Peter did this in the very beginning but,
unfortunately, they cleverly wriggled out andtook up the discussion of
religious law. If the same is done tomorrow also, we will be badly let
down, because what theyenquire about is of the Divine secrets which no
one except saints can understand.
Michael: In fact, the discussion went into wrong channels in the very
beginning, otherwise they would have been let down by their own
Qur'an. Does not the Qur'an say that our Lord Jesus is the
"life-giver" and brings the dead to life? Does not theQur'an call him
the "Spiritof God" and the "Word ofGod"?
Peter: But, now, the subject of discussion for tomorrow has been
defined. It will be on the Divinity of Christ and Atonement. See how
cleverly I wanted them todivert from it, but Michael put them again on
it.
Michael: Do not blame me. It is all your handiwork.
Another priest: What is the use of indulging in mutual quarrels. It
will beseen tomorrow, when Divinity of the Lord will come under
discussion that our Christian religion is not a soft morsel which
anyone canswallow at a gulp.
After this conversation allthe Christians left the church and
dispersed. Isabella also left with her companions and made for her
home. On her wayshe spoke to her companions.
Isabella: Just see, behind the back of Muslims they boast that Muslims
cannot stand before them, but when they were faced with Muslims they
were thoroughly exposed. I am sorry that my father had to leave
immediately after leading the prayer as he had full confidence in
theability and learning of Michael and Peter, otherwise he would
havesilenced these Muslims.
One companion: In fact, the problem is a bit too tough. What even your
father could have done ?
Another companion: In fact, our beliefs and dogmas are poor. Otherwise
our priests would not have been so beaten.
Isabella: God forbid ! Just a single discussion has upset you. Our
beliefs arecertainly well founded, but there should be someone to
explain them. Now, tomorrow the Divinity of Christ will be discussed
and you willsee how badly they will fare.
They had now reached a crossroad where all the girls turned towards
their respective homes.
Isabella – A girl of Islamic Spain/ - - - :-> Transtors:
1.http://free-translation.imtranslator.net/lowres.asp
2.http://translate.google.com/m?twu=1&hl=en&vi=m&sl=auto&tl=en